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	<title>Comments on: Why Trend Following works: look at the Distribution</title>
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	<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/</link>
	<description>Systematic Trading research and development, with a flavour of Trend Following</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:18:39 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Intricacies of Market and Trend Following Changes &#124; Au.Tra.Sy blog - Automated trading System</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-961</link>
		<dc:creator>Intricacies of Market and Trend Following Changes &#124; Au.Tra.Sy blog - Automated trading System</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-961</guid>
		<description>[...] and explanation of it, but I believe Trend Following&#8217;s performance is mostly the result of fat-tailed distributions (distribution kurtosis) and possibly [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and explanation of it, but I believe Trend Following&#8217;s performance is mostly the result of fat-tailed distributions (distribution kurtosis) and possibly [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why Trend Following works: Autocorrelation? &#124; Au.Tra.Sy blog - Automated trading System</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Trend Following works: Autocorrelation? &#124; Au.Tra.Sy blog - Automated trading System</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-907</guid>
		<description>[...] can be predicted with some degree of accuracy).Kurtosis only?In an earlier post, I discussed how fat-tails are a reason for Trend Following success (or in technical terms: the excess kurtosis of price distributions).However, there is something [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] can be predicted with some degree of accuracy).Kurtosis only?In an earlier post, I discussed how fat-tails are a reason for Trend Following success (or in technical terms: the excess kurtosis of price distributions).However, there is something [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jez</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>Jez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-535</guid>
		<description>Would be very interested in that research Alex, please keep us posted if you find it again.

Thanks for your comments - and you make a very valid point. I think the main point I was trying to illustrate that &quot;cutting losses short and letting winners run&quot; (which is one of the main concepts of trend following) in a fat tails distribution should yield positive returns - because fat tails mean that there will be &quot;relatively speaking&quot; many extreme movements (ie. long trends).

Agree that there is a bit more to trend following than that (otherwise you really only need random entries with tight stop-losses...). The main &quot;extra&quot; is that the actual entry provides a positive edge compared to a random entry and as you point out this implies auto-correlation</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would be very interested in that research Alex, please keep us posted if you find it again.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments &#8211; and you make a very valid point. I think the main point I was trying to illustrate that &#8220;cutting losses short and letting winners run&#8221; (which is one of the main concepts of trend following) in a fat tails distribution should yield positive returns &#8211; because fat tails mean that there will be &#8220;relatively speaking&#8221; many extreme movements (ie. long trends).</p>
<p>Agree that there is a bit more to trend following than that (otherwise you really only need random entries with tight stop-losses&#8230;). The main &#8220;extra&#8221; is that the actual entry provides a positive edge compared to a random entry and as you point out this implies auto-correlation</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-528</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-528</guid>
		<description>Hi,

your blog is very interesting.

Concerning TF and fat tail, we often hear that TF profits from fat tails, but can we conclude that it is &quot;The&quot; reason why it works? What about a distribution with fat tails but where the daily returns are strongly negatively autocorrelated? What about a distribution without fat tail where the daily returns are positively autocorrelated? I was never able to demonstrate that fat tails is &quot;The&quot; reason. Would be enough to find a theoretical distribution without fat tail that is profitable with TF to demonstrate that fat tails is not the reason. Read a research once where the impact on TF  of the different moments and other features of the distribution were analysed. I think, the conclusion was that fat tails had a negative impact. More important was the path of the daily returns (&quot;directional volatility&quot;). Have to find where I have this research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>your blog is very interesting.</p>
<p>Concerning TF and fat tail, we often hear that TF profits from fat tails, but can we conclude that it is &#8220;The&#8221; reason why it works? What about a distribution with fat tails but where the daily returns are strongly negatively autocorrelated? What about a distribution without fat tail where the daily returns are positively autocorrelated? I was never able to demonstrate that fat tails is &#8220;The&#8221; reason. Would be enough to find a theoretical distribution without fat tail that is profitable with TF to demonstrate that fat tails is not the reason. Read a research once where the impact on TF  of the different moments and other features of the distribution were analysed. I think, the conclusion was that fat tails had a negative impact. More important was the path of the daily returns (&#8221;directional volatility&#8221;). Have to find where I have this research.</p>
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		<title>By: Jez</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>Jez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-495</guid>
		<description>Jack - I understand your point of view, although I believe in your specific case, a stock growing at 30% a year might have this aspect already &quot;priced in&quot; and any future price variation will depend on other factors (ie beating expectations, unforeseen events - black swans, etc.). One could argue that these factors can not be known and therefore price changes will appear &quot;random&quot; in the future (as random as events that will influence it). This in essence the philosophy of the Efficient Market Hypothesis. In this scenario prices are distributed under a gaussian (normal distribution).

However there is also a behavioral aspect to investing/trading which generates these fat-tails (maybe similar to the reflexivity concept described by Soros) which proves that the gaussian does not apply to the price distribution.

One way of looking at this is if you picked stocks randomly, most of them wouldd randomly &quot;err&quot; on the positive or negative side but more stocks than &quot;predicted&quot; by the normal distribution would exhibit extreme movements. And this is shown by Trend Followers performance with more losing trades than winning ones (albeit winning trade gains far exceed losing trade losses).

I hope this clarifies my point... I was not trying to say that stock movement is completely random - it is definitely linked to the fundamentals (in the long term); but the change in the fundamentals is random from an investor point of view (even though it might result from excellent management from the Company directors).

This post was mostly inspired from various readings (mostly &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.automated-trading-system.com/library/#MarketsRiskChance&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these books&lt;/a&gt;) as well as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013702018X/autotradblog-20&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Trend Following&lt;/a&gt; by Michael Covel (and there are a few more posts coming regarding this!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack &#8211; I understand your point of view, although I believe in your specific case, a stock growing at 30% a year might have this aspect already &#8220;priced in&#8221; and any future price variation will depend on other factors (ie beating expectations, unforeseen events &#8211; black swans, etc.). One could argue that these factors can not be known and therefore price changes will appear &#8220;random&#8221; in the future (as random as events that will influence it). This in essence the philosophy of the Efficient Market Hypothesis. In this scenario prices are distributed under a gaussian (normal distribution).</p>
<p>However there is also a behavioral aspect to investing/trading which generates these fat-tails (maybe similar to the reflexivity concept described by Soros) which proves that the gaussian does not apply to the price distribution.</p>
<p>One way of looking at this is if you picked stocks randomly, most of them wouldd randomly &#8220;err&#8221; on the positive or negative side but more stocks than &#8220;predicted&#8221; by the normal distribution would exhibit extreme movements. And this is shown by Trend Followers performance with more losing trades than winning ones (albeit winning trade gains far exceed losing trade losses).</p>
<p>I hope this clarifies my point&#8230; I was not trying to say that stock movement is completely random &#8211; it is definitely linked to the fundamentals (in the long term); but the change in the fundamentals is random from an investor point of view (even though it might result from excellent management from the Company directors).</p>
<p>This post was mostly inspired from various readings (mostly <a href="http://www.automated-trading-system.com/library/#MarketsRiskChance" rel="nofollow">these books</a>) as well as <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013702018X/autotradblog-20" rel="nofollow">Trend Following</a> by Michael Covel (and there are a few more posts coming regarding this!)</p>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-494</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-494</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t agree with your assertion that the market is mostly random with some extreme movements, especially the extreme movement part, because it implies that only in rare occasions will you ride on the trend correctly.

the overall market is a reflection of the economy and a particular stock price is a reflection of the health of that company. if we agree on this then the stock price is not a random walk down the street. if a company is enjoying 30% growth year over year, the stock price should rise year over year to reflect that growth. so in good times you should see a lot of trending stocks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t agree with your assertion that the market is mostly random with some extreme movements, especially the extreme movement part, because it implies that only in rare occasions will you ride on the trend correctly.</p>
<p>the overall market is a reflection of the economy and a particular stock price is a reflection of the health of that company. if we agree on this then the stock price is not a random walk down the street. if a company is enjoying 30% growth year over year, the stock price should rise year over year to reflect that growth. so in good times you should see a lot of trending stocks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jez</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Jez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-27</guid>
		<description>@Millward
Thanks - I tried to break it down in a simpe manner because I think it is primordial to understand and be in full agreement of the underlying philosophy behind a trading system.
Re-reading Trend Following by Covel made me understand that trading philosophy is as important as the actual strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Millward<br />
Thanks &#8211; I tried to break it down in a simpe manner because I think it is primordial to understand and be in full agreement of the underlying philosophy behind a trading system.<br />
Re-reading Trend Following by Covel made me understand that trading philosophy is as important as the actual strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Millward</title>
		<link>http://www.automated-trading-system.com/why-trend-following-works-look-at-the-distribution/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Millward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.automated-trading-system.com/?p=668#comment-26</guid>
		<description>A very clear and layman like discription of how a fat tail can be conducive to a traders overall alpha. 
Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very clear and layman like discription of how a fat tail can be conducive to a traders overall alpha.<br />
Cheers</p>
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